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Hardball With Chris Matthews

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America 11, Pennsylvania 8, Angie 7, Us 7, Clinton 7, Washington 6, Michigan 5, Jimmy Fallon 5, Ford 4, Joan 3, New York 3, Bjorn 3, Garth 3, Boehner 2, Coolidge 2, Ann Hornaday 2, Joan Walsh 2, Alex 2, Bp 2, Tyco Integrated Security 2,
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  MSNBC    Hardball With Chris Matthews    News/Business.   
   (2013) New. (CC)  

    February 25, 2013
    2:00 - 3:00pm PST  

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think of link. in the middle 69 sift war lincoln said we're going it unite this country economically. .
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let's play "hardball."
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good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. let me start with today's democratic party. if you want to be president you better be young because you have some waiting to do. if hillary clinton runs in 2016 and runs again in 2020, that means the job is not open for you until 2024. it gets worse. if there's a president hillary clinton, that means 16 years of democrats in the white house, the longest run since fdr and truman. if anyone now in politics can wait that long. so the big question looming as democratic governors meet in washington right now, what other career goal makes sense it there's no real shot at the presidency? or is there a lingering hope that secretary clinton won't make the run? or if she does, that she could be beaten? is that what has governor cuomo and governor o'malley and vice president biden dreaming of sitting behind that presidential desk? the outside thought of what might be? joan walsh is editor-at-large or
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salon and david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones. both are msnbc political analysts. let's take a look at this story leading politico. the headline reads dems 2016, will hillary clinton clear the field? let's look at the contenders we see as being in the waiting room. you know the people all have signs or have shown sign that is point to them running if hillary clinton doesn't. vice president joe biden, of course. new york governor andrew cuomo. martin o mall, massachusetts governor deval patrick and perhaps chicago mayor rahm emanuel. let me go to david corn on this question. are these people all moving around having cocktail parties like o'malley had the other day, little snacks, little nunchys for people at the governors mansion, at the marriott the other day, are they all doing this because they think hillary is beatable, she's not running, or what? or they think what? i don't know what they're thinking? year all thinking she's probably going to run. >> these guys, i don't know, maybe a couple senators and they
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look in the mirror they all see a potential president. they're not going to start acting on this. they want to make sure they're going to, first off, do no harm. not do anything that would prevent them from running down the road. >> but there is no down the road if hillary runs and wins. >> that's right. that's why i'm not convinced yet that hillary is going to run because she'll be 69. the last three presidents we've had been 46, 54 and 47 when he took office. america has turned to younger, more vigorous people, but, you know, politics is a game for risk takers. there will be somebody if you look at those numbers you put up beginning of the show, they will do the math and they'll say it's now or never, and she will have competition from either those people on the screen or somebody else who won't want to wait and who will wonder if america is ready again to elect somebody that old. >> well, let's go to joan walsh and try to talk about how gentlemen used to behave. there was a time when men would not ask a woman her age. now we have what we just heard
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actually giving her age and making a knock about it. what happened to decent standards? i'm serious here. i'm serious about this. and here is my question. same one to you joan as a pro. why are those other professionals to do this as a living begin planning for a race that may never happen for them unless they're going it shoot the moon and go up against a very difficult challenge? >> well, first of all, david is a friend of mine so i'm not going to really rap him for that. i'm just going to stick to this. i would match hillary clinton's sense of being capable of keeping a very vigorous schedule against anyone's. the pace she's kept in the last four years, in the last eight years would tire any of us, including you and me, david. so let's just leave it there. and leave aside questions of age. look, i don't think anybody has the -- either the resume or the star power that hillary clinton brings to this. what i think these guys are doing though, chris, is what david says. you know, she's not decided. i kind of think she will, but none of us are sure, and so if
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they want to be president, they've got to be active. they've got to be out there. they can't be too obvious at this point. the gentlemanly thing or the smart political thing, whichever you want to call it, is to wait and give her a little space and respect and see what she does. but if she decides to run, i don't think you see any of those guys that you mentioned in the race. >> you don't see -- let me get back to you on that same question, david. i think some people really are born to be president from the time they run for student council in high school and they run again in college and they're sort of born to be campus politicos. they never stop running. do you think cuomo will step accede. let's get to the vice president. if he heard hillary, she called him up and said, joe, i'm going for it, would he stay in the race? >> my guess is that he won't because, you know, i'll keep coming back to the age issue despite what my good friend joan says, he's five years older than she is. i don't think he would. he doesn't have i think -- >> are you the grim reaper? is this your new role here? >> i don't think he says the same incentive to run that she
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says or the same claim on the democratic base. these are all very ambitious people. i don't say that as a knock on them. they'll be there in case -- listen, last time around she didn't run a good campaign. she's been very -- >> we're going to get to that. i am going to get to that. >> and she's in a different place now. >> let's take a look at hillary's ratings. the public really is on hillary's side to run. the last quinnipiac poll has her at 61% favorable. i just wonder whether that in itself isn't going to be a nudge, joan, when she looks at those numbers and says i could be the first woman, i could be on the supreme court if i wanted it, but i could be firths ever woman president of the united states and there aren't many waiting behind me that would get it fairly soon either. it's either me or nobody perhaps for a number of cycles perhaps. and so she may feel the responsibility. as a woman, what do you think? do you think she feels the responsibility to take that opportunity? not just out of personal ambition but gender equality
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reasons? >> yes, i do. i think first and foremost she's a very dutiful person, a very disciplined person. she has both a sense of her own history but a sense of her own obligations, and i think if she starts to feel, you know, to get her rest in, to read some good books, to spend some time with her family, she may look at those numbers, she may look at the history, she may look at the bench and say, you know, i ought to do this. she's going to be hearing from a lot of women around the country and around the world frankly who are going to say you can do this. you are the front-runner, male or female. and, you know, david and i, we've all looked at the fact that she ran a terrible campaign and so i'm really reluctant to say she's the front-runner again because she was the front-runner in 2007 and we saw what happened. but this is different. i'm not saying anything is certain, but i think to go to the question you asked me, chris, i think she's got to look at those numbers and she's got to look at the chance and say, i will make history and i will make a lot of women and little girls very, very proud. >> you can always learn from the other side, guys. always try to learn from both sides in this business of
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analysis and ron nld reagan ran a pretty good campaign in '76 and almost knocked off an incumbent president, jerry ford. he came back as a supply sider with a totally different approach and fired his campaign manager after winning in new hampshire. so you can make radical changes in strategy and really prove yourself to the game. last month on "60 minutes" steve kroft, he's good at this, asked the president about secretary's clinton's prospects four years hence. >> i have to ask you, what's the date of expiration on this endorsement. >> oh, steve, you know, i know -- >> i have to ask that question. come on. you're sitting here together. everybody in town is talking about it already, and this is taking place. >> you know, steve, i got to tell you, you guys in the press are incorrigible. literally inaugurated four days ago and you're talking about
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elections four years from now. >> yeah. and i am, as you know, steve, i am still secretary of state so i'm out of politics and i'm forbidden from even hearing these questions. >> that's already out of date. she's no longer secretary of state. i want you to go back to this question because i think we are not ahead of the calendar here right now. you two guys know and i know that the decision about whether hillary clinton is runs for president is several months off, not several years off. for the simple reason of courtesy. if she doesn't make the move these other guys are going to make it and she jumps in and it will cause all kinds of mayhem. i'll leave it open, david and then joan, when does she really have to make a move to signal she's going to run for president? >> i think she has at least a good year here. >> a year. >> to do that. i think she can rest up. i spoke to a real good friend -- >> rest for a year? >> i think she needs it after the last four. >> other people have hard jobs, too, you know. they don't get a year to rest.
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>> we'll see how vigorous she is in the next year. i talked to a good friend -- >> have you ever rested for a year? >> no. >> i don't know how you do that. how about two days in a row eight hours a night. >> chris, i poke to a good friend of hers about a month ago and she said hillary would like to be president, thinks she obviously can do a good job, and would like to give it a run, but she is, indeed, worried about the process and all the hatred that will be thrust at her once again. we know it's coming, and she doesn't relish the idea of campaigning for two years straight for the job. >> joan? could she make an adjustment like reagan did and run a different kind of campaign that deal was the knowledge she gained from the first try effectively? >> that's a really good question. i think she can. i agree with david. i'm not saying she's going to rest for a year. she's not going to a spa, chris, owe are a cloister, but i think she could afford to give speeches, read, talk. she wants to write another book for a year. by early next year she probably has to be out of courtesy out of a sense of decency to the party
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and other people who want to start assembling a team and run, she probably has to give a pretty serious indication of her intent. now, i think if she runs again, she really can't run as that front-runner. it cannot be that inevitability campaign she ran in 2007 and she knows that. she's got to be about the future. >> if you're watching a madam secretary, all three of us have brilliant ideas. >> we do. >> great ideas. and i especially put myself in that group with joan and david. we know how to do this, people get you in there. thank you very much, david, and thank you, joan. coming up, did president obama miscalculate the republicans preferred defense cuts or more national debt. apparently they're happy to take the whacks at the pentagon in the interest of cutting spending overall. who would have expected this? apparently the president didn't. and can the republicans get away with it? republicans in two key states are up to something now they're not giving up on schemes to rejigger the electoral college. they're out to help their candidates next time. republicans figure if they can't
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welcome back to "hardball." it's showdown time of course. the clock is ticking down to friday as republicans and democrats face off over that massive automatic job killing spending cut that's scheduled to take place manch 1st. the president is taking his face to the american people as we have seen warning the public about the impact of those cuts. today he made an appeal to the governors. >> now, these impacts will not all be felt on day one, but rest assured the uncertainty is already having an effect. companies are preparing layoff notices. families are preparing to cut back on expenses. and the longer these cuts are in place, the bigger the impact will become. i know sometimes folks in congress think that compromise is a bad word, and they figure
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they'll pay a higher price at the polls for working with the other side than they will for standing pat or engaging in obstructionism, but as governors some of you with legislatures controlled by the other party, you know that compromise is essential to getting things done. and so is prioritizing, making smart choices. >> so the question tonight, what is the president's campaigning for? what is he getting done here? joy reid is managing editor of the agree ceo and howard fineman is editorial director for "the huffington post." howard, i keep thinking the president's campaigning, the first lady was on the oscars last night, on jimmy fallon. she's delightful. it's nice and soft. what does it have to do with winning the american people's confidence we can get the government running owe on a steady course and no more shouldown fierce that seem to be hobbling us in terms of building self-confidence for this country? >> chris, i think the president, the obamas, are masters of all they survey in terms of the culture and in terms really of
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public opinion right now. if you look at the polls, the public is on the president's side in terms of his priorities, and they're on his side in terms of whom they will blame if there is a sequestration shutdown or limitation of the government come the end of the week. i think the president's theory here is to build as much outside pressure on the republicans in the house as he possibly can to get them to cry uncle again on taxes so he can then move onto entitlements and modifications there to make the grand bargain. >> and the evidence it's working? >> no. it's a long way around at this point, and he runs the risk, i think, of painting into a corner, cornering sort of the people he needs in the end. so neither side at this point, neither the president nor the republicans are really making anything easier. >> that's the old question. you know, bullies usually get somebody in the corner and the guy ends up killing the guy or fighting back at least. if you bully is person into a
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corner and you say you have no alternative but to deal with me what do they do? they'll fight. i'm not sure they'll say uppingcle. >> the problem, too, is the republican party, the calvin coolidge wing of the party is pretty much the only one that has an ideology they can -- >> which is don't spend money. >> don't spend money and don't raise taxes no matter what. they would rather have the sequester even -- >> did you know that two months ago? i didn't. >> you know what, no. i didn't know that wing of the party could stomach the defense part of the cuts. what they wanted was to replace the defense cuts with entitlement cuts and once they realized they wouldn't get the president to go out front and say we'll cut medicare instead, they will take the defense cuts if they can get austerity. >> the hawkish party that was fighting in iraq, fighting in afghanistan, a lot of neocon influence, now basically says screw you to people like bill crystal, we're out in of the wars. buck mccune of all people, classic appropriate yater of california said in "the new york time times", a great reporting piece this is something that basically
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miscalculated, the obama people. they didn't understand the republicans cared less about defense spending than they do about spending cuts. >> look, chris, i don't know if i can prove it because i don't know if i went on record in the huff post on it two months ago, but i think after the last time around when, as joy calls them the coolidge wing of the republican party felt they had been taken advantage of, if you will, by the president on the tax negotiations in the fiscal cliff, they were vowing and they were saying pretty clearly that they weren't going to let it happen again on taxes, and i also think that the coolidge wing of the party is a little less neocon and a little more isolationist, if you will, than the previous crowd of 10, 15 years ago that was around george w. bush and before that. >> i agree. >> this is a different group, and they are -- >> how do you fight it? >> chris, they are almost like '60s protesters who are getting ready to take over the ad building, and speaker boehner
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kind of is in the role of dean wormser. he's helpless. >> i think it will be the raspberry statement, not the stra you berry statement. i got you to laugh, howard. that's great. the whole idea of the raspberry statement. we don't care if the government shuts down, don't care if the 13e7nding gets cut. that's what we're here for. remember we watched that scene in john mccain's town meeting, it had to do with immigration. but that same guy in the back row is probably jumping up as much as he doesn't like mexican immigrants coming in the country, he hates government spending, too. it's the same guy. >> and in a way the president is being victimized by his own success. he stripped them of everything else they had. they're being told they got to do immigration even though their base hates it. they raised taxes. they voted to raise taxes which was a central plank of republicanism for like my entire life. they raised taxes -- >> for 1%. >> he stripped them to their boxers. >> you are really overdoing this. the republicans gave away the tax increase --
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>> they gave it away. they're not going to give on spending. they're like, look, all we've got left is we're for austerity. we want the spending cuts p.m. come what may, we'll do it -- >> chris, i'm told by a lot of democrats on the hill that i saw over the weekend that if the president moves an inch on entitlements, in other words, if he resurfaces that topic, that there is room for a deal here. but right now the president isn't doing that. the president is only emphasizing the tax side of this because he wants, i think, to get cover with his own party -- >> i agree. >> -- for when he comes along with -- >> how do you get the baby back from the kidnappers and get the hostage money for them? that's the -- the whole question is how -- it's a terrible metaphor. how do you do the transfer? how does nancy pelosi say i know we're going to get the tax reform and the spending and the revenue increase and that's why i'm willing to go with reform on entitlements? >> i don't see what the incentive is for democrats to now cut medicare. if they win on loopholes, if
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they're able to get tax increase -- >> because -- i'll tell you why. if this government goes down and we continue to have this craziness, public confidence in the economy is going to drop and we're going to have a second recession and this president's second term ain't going to be worth claiming and that's the danger. >> but there's no incentive for barack obama to put his name on it. republicans are the ones that want to cut medicare, they have to go out front. they keep trying to push him to do it. >> let me give you my speech. it's not left or right. somebody has got to drive the fricking car and the kids in the backseat are going to complain. sooner or later you have to drive the car and it's obama's car. i normally -- i can't keep sitting in the backseat daddy she touched me. up next. car sick. it's the greatest thing i have seen in a long time. michelle obama on -- it was great, and he was great, too. i thought he was a mom there for a while. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.
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back to "hardball." now to the side shoi. friday night on jim afallon's show, first lady michelle obama joined with a partner to demonstrate how mom dancing has progressed over the years. ♪ ♪
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♪ >> just name another first lady in the history of this country to owe do something like this on television. fabulous skit. she was truly a good stort. miss obama's fun times with jimmy fallon got a nod at yesterday's national governors' aquotion meeting in washington. here is jack mar kel speaking directly to president obama. >> you're probably jealous of the first lady. she's jimmy fallon's trainer. while you on the other hand deal with leader reid and speaker boehner. >> during an appointment at the white house last year the first lady gave fallon sop fitness tips. the president did some social towel snapping if you will.
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>> i want to say thanks to you for being on your best behavior last night. i'm told nothing was broken, no silverware is missing. i didn't get any calls from the neighbors about the noise. although i can't speak for joe's afterparty at the observatory. i hear that was wild. >> well, next the "sideshow" meets the oscars. it comes as no surprise that the iranian government is not jazzed by the movie "argo." the movie is all about how they were duped into believing that their country was being used for a hollywood movie when the whole thing was really a cia operation to free six american hostages. all the same, the results of the academy awards were reported by the iranian news agency including that "argo" had won best picture. do you notice anything off about the snapshot of michelle obama presenting theward. she added extra fabric and sleeves. it didn't pass muster under the country's strict dress code.
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they got this as a result. no marm done. wish we could always fight wars like this. up next, republicans in some key blue states are doubling down on their plans to rig or rejigger the lelectoral college so their candidates would win. if you can't win, just change the rules. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact that i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. join today and find out why over 1 million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. if youthen this willbrids arbe a nice surprise. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid.
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however shares ended lower along with the broader market. and rental car chain hertz was a bright spot. the company's latest results exceeded expectations and its 2013 guidance was bullish. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." you can't take your eye off the republican these days because when you do, they're plotting new ways to disenfranchise some voters. this weekend in michigan a move to rig the electoral vote system to hurt urban voters got a big boost at the republican convention in lansing. republicans want to junk the winner take all system and allocate votes by congress cal district. this means voters in cities, detroit for example, who tend to be democrats, would have their votes mine myselfed because they're geographically voted together. the real vote count in michigan
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last november was 16. romney, 0. 16, obama, 0 for romney. under the new system, obama would have won 7 electoral votes and romney who lost the popular vote by 10% would git 9 electoral votes. is that fair? in pennsylvania republicans are attempting a similar stunt. in virginia stricter vitter i.d. laws limiting the types of acceptable i.d. required to vote have been passed by lawmakers and has gone to the governor for his signature. the voting rights act is going to be challenged by the supreme court. joining me right now is pennsylvania democratic party chair jim burn and the co-director of the advancement project, an organization that works to protect voting rights, judith brown diane nis. i want to talk to you about this thing in michigan. it's so obviously intended to zap the importance of detroit. it's so obvious because you have a lot of minority voters living there and this just basically says you get one cd.
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we're going to take the state. >> that's right. you know, we have to understand that this wasn't just one act, right? first you take over state legislatures in 2010, the gop does that. then what they do is they try to make it harder to vote by passing voter i.d. laws, and then the third part of their plan is then to change the way the electoral college votes are allocated so that people in communities of color have less power, and so this is the trifecta of the gop plan. we have to understand that, yes, it is not an election year in many places, but god bless them, the gop has a long-term plan on how to win the game. >> jim, in pennsylvania we know about the votto voter i.d. card. when will it come back into play and the court order and what are the pennsylvania republicans up to in terms of rejiggering the electoral college up there is they can get a big bulk of electoral votes -- >> advancement project is involved in the pennsylvania case and we expect that that will be -- that that i.d. law
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will not be implemented for a little while because the state is moving back off of the idea. every time we went to court, they would lessen the requirements. we think that that's -- that that will play out in a bit. >> jim burn, thank you, chairman of the democratic party. tell me about the whole outlook of what you see coming out of harrisbu harrisburg, what the republicans are up to with the majority there? >> the first part of your question is there's a court date i believe in july, but they say it's not -- the voter i.d., that is. they say it's not about cheating to win. well, chris, we talked last october about how they were running around with misrepresentations creating the impression falsely that you needed identification to vote in the november elections. funny how this primary in may of 2013 they're not doing anything remotely close to that. that hearing will be in july. on the second part of your question with respect to the electoral college issue, how is it fair that in pennsylvania -- how is it fair we would award mitt romney eight votes when the
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president got 20 electoral votes under our current system. why would we reward him 8 votes when he lost by 300,000? this is a very unpopular governor with a republican controlled senate and hanging on by its fingernails. s in not a popular idea here. they're going to push it but i don't know if they're going to be successful. >> do you think corbett would dare hang it on himself? it seems to me it will be one heck of a thing to carry across the finish line if he has this on top of his popularity. >> this is not a popular governor. this is probably the least popular governor in america right now. no governor has been this abysmal in the ratings this close to a re-election for tom corbett that's next year. so, no, he's trying to stay over the plate right now and trying to get his ratings up. he's failing miserably. i don't see him wanting this type of political baggage when he has enough problems as it is. >> let me go back to judith.
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running around the bases right now, basically virginia has -- they're pushing something now on voter i.d. and you have a -- very close. cuccinelli i think could be a close race if it comes to that this fall. if they can nick a few minority votes like 5% even or 3% or 4% away, they could take it. i'm wondering how much they're getting eager to do that right now? >> i'm sure they're pretty eager. we'll have a gubernatorial election. mcdonnell actually they just passed a law last year. governor mcdonnell did not want a strict i.d. lay, but now here we are getting close to another election and the republicans are lining up to make it harder to vote. and so i think the governor is in a tough position. he's got to think about what's really fair and where he stood last time or does he stand with his party so that they can win? and so i think he's in a difficult position. we know that they're lining up in every state. missouri, arkansas, we see that these voter i.d. laws are still in play because this wasn't just
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about 2012. this is a long-term plan to make sure that it's harder for americans to participate in our democracy. >> i want to go back to jim about fair play here in a mon partisan sense. when you talk to voters it seems to me they understand the rules get changed in baseball. you don't have enough home runs could you siden the strike zone -- narrow the strike zone. they do that in baseball but it's always jiggered for a purpose. people say why are you doing that? why are you changing the strike zone? we want the game to be more exciti exciting. in this case you want the republicans to win. it just seems like that. >> it is. the difference is, you know, we're talking about baseball versus the failure of the republican party to be able to field an adequate candidate. at the end of the day they have the hard way, which is to reinvent themselves into a fashion that is more consistent and more in line with what pennsylvania voters are looking for, it's a moderate state. you know that. >> it's a purple. if bill scranton were running or tom ridge, they wouldn't have to play games.
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>> find a bill scranton, find a tom ridge, find a john hines. those folks couldn't get out of a republican primary like now. if they counseled a candidate like that, they would appeal to pennsylvanians. these the argument, look at pennsylvania, look at michigan. these are the type of states that justify, justify the need for act five of the voting rights. >> do you think you would grow old to believe eisenhower republicanism looked pretty good? who would have believed it. thanks jim. judith, it's always good to have your expertise. up next, if presidential elections are a mood ring for the country, oscar night is a close second. what did we learn last night at the oscars? this is "hardball," the place for politics. property, while keeping out threats to your operations? it's not working! yes it is. welcome to tyco integrated security. with world-class monitoring centers
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how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed you got to bring it in. if your tires need to be rotated, you have to get that done as well. jackie, tell me why somebody should bring they're car here to the ford dealership for service instead of any one of those other places out there. they are going to take care of my car because this is where it came from. price is right no problem, they make you feel like you're a family. get a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation and much more, $29.95 after $10.00 rebate. if you take care of your car your car will take care of you. we're back. if the presidential election is the best mood ring in the country, the academy awards are a close second. perhaps the biggest surprise at last night's oscars was when first lady michelle obama joined the ceremony via satellite from the to announce "argo" had won best picture. >> and now for the moment we have all been waiting for.
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and the oscar goes to "argo." >> i was here 15 years ago or something, and, you know, i had no idea what i was doing. i stood out here in front of you all really just a kid, and i went out, you know, and i never thought that i would be back here, and i am, and it doesn't matter how you get knocked down in life because that's going to happen. all that matters is that you got to get up. i love you. this is for you. >> i think "argo" won last night because it reflects the mood of the country. it's about a successful nonviolent multinational effort to get people out of iran and other places we ought not to be and it's about america winning for example and for once. here to discuss the politics of the oscars, alex wagner and ann hornaday. thank you for joining us, ann. you're the expert. every time when i think about it a decade, i try to think about
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what was going on at the time. the south in the late '30s was sort of vaguely english to make the english look good. the 1950s movies about biblical times and the way we treated slaves. it's really about the way we treat black people in america in those days. it's always about the present. i think "argo" is about the need of the country to win one of these damn things overseas for once. >> i think that's a point very well taken. movies are always allegories. we've talked about this before, too. this is an amazing year for washington process being the star of these movies. we had "argo." we had "lincoln" and "zero dark thirty" all of which really lifted the veil on these processes and in the case of "lincoln" a process we're mired in in a disfunkal way showing them working. what's different with last year's movies is there was this lack of cynicism in all of them. even though they were tough. "zero dark thirty" is a tough movie, but it is not a cynical film. and i think that's what really sets these apart.
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>> i was thinking, alex, "recou, the first time i said to people, you know what government looks like? that's what it is like. it is messy. al gore's side takes one. we'll count those three-counties. the other guys count other counties. it's the games behind the scenes that is democracy in action. >> one of the things about "argo" offered audiences is a conclusion. it's been so long since we've had any sort of clear cut foreign policy win. and that was a messy situation. eight servicemen died and ended jimmy carter's presidency or re-election bid and presented this this package. it is a clear feel good movie. "zero dark 30" is an incredibly gray movie. and i think it left people either angry that the questions weren't answered thoor there wasn't more of a clear cut viewpoint on torture. and even "lincoln" was, i think, a feel good movie because it sort of showed america coming together to end slavery and
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close a very ugly, bloody chapter in our nation's history. at the same time, you know, speaks of dysfunction in washington which makes us all a little queasy. >> you know what i liked about last night? i liked seth mcfarland. he was respectful in his own irrespectful way. i don't know. he was a wise guy. he said things he shouldn't have said about getting into lincoln's head and terrible lines. i get the sense he set it up so you could have shirley bassy come back and give that wonderful rendition of "gold finger." it's just great stuff. and then to have barbara streisand sing for the guy she loved, cared so much about, marvin hamlin who i got to know as well. i thought there was some great stuff. i think the "les mis" production number was great. it was old school. >> i take your point. i love the shirley bassy moment. i loved the set. it did have that old school glamour that opening number which channing tatum and sh
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charlize theron. i think at some points it looked like they were trying to be the tony's or win a tony. i always think it's sad when people win an award and might even be the one and only time up on that stage and they -- their acceptance speech gets cut off because they need to have room for yet another production number. i do think that sometimes we lose sight of what this means to the people who are actually there. but i do take your point. i think that it's always nice to have a good old fashioned song and dance man in that position. >> i think the guy is great. let me ask you about the obamas. bill clinton was involved with the golden globes. i think it's the bicoastal america. if you look at a map of this country, it's clear the way it works. you got new york and the new england states and northeast and then around michigan it stops, you know? or illinois. and then you have this vast amount of country and then l.a. and then san francisco.
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and here it seems to me another one of the marriages of the bicoastal, east coast against the west coast. republicans don't do this. >> chris, there are two things. one, could laura bush do it? no. she wouldn't have been greeted with the same amount of warmth. the first lady's message is about american entrepreneurism and children believing their dreams. it's what we can do when we believe in ourselves and believe in love. that is a benign first lady message, but, chris, in terms of a map, there are a lot of states in the middle of the country that the obamas are putting in play whether that's the southwest, the middle west. i mean we're not talking just a bicoastal marriage. >> i think you're fighting my point but maybe you're right. let me get back to you, ann. this cultural connection between left coast and kras democrademo getting pronounced. come on, jack nicholson, the irreverant hollywood guy. >> i thought it was shocking, actually. i just wrote a story that day about the degree to which the campaigning that the studios were doing for the oscars was
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overlapping with political gamesmanship in washington. >> who got that get? >> it was harvey weinstein. >> he pulled her in. >> i wish, you know, if i had a wish for that moment, i think i really -- especially in the light of newtown and the discussions we're having about gun violence and the media, i think she's in the prime position to be a leader on media literacy. and she did come out for arts education. i think even to make it more pointed in terms of media literacy and the importance of that, that would have been a perfect podium. i hope if she continues in this vain. >> all right, ann hornaday, you are always right. thank you, alex, you're sometimes right as well. we'll be right back. a talking . but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking
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